The one with...the Ex Heads of Sustainability
The Future We Build, A Brave Ideas network affiliated show featuring Alex Edds
In this candid episode, Alex Edds brings together two former heads of sustainability—Robbie Epsom (ex-CBRE Investment Management) and Emily Hamilton (ex-Savills Investment Management)—for what Alex calls "a therapy session." The three discuss why so many senior sustainability leaders have left their roles, what's changed in the market, and where they're channelling their energy next.
The Future We Build - Season 1, Episode 3
This is an unusually honest conversation about burnout, the shift from strategic thinking to operational execution, and why the fractional model might be the future of sustainability leadership in real estate.
Key Timestamps
[00:01:17] - Why are we all ex-heads of sustainability? Setting the scene
[00:02:08] - Robbie's journey to fractional advisory
[00:05:34] - Emily's transition: losing strategic foresight in "control mode"[00:08:16] - Have we outgrown the role, or has the role outgrown us?[00:11:07] - Sustainability teams now need to justify ROI
[00:15:01] - Emily on resilience: asking difficult questions vs. pleasing the client
[00:17:14] - Did in-house roles lose the "challenger" voice?
[00:18:38] - Infrastructure booming while real estate churns
[00:20:00] - Green hushing: "keep our heads down"
[00:21:11] - Emily: we've lost the sense of innovation
[00:22:07] - Was net zero set with genuine understanding—or peer pressure?[00:27:09] - Emily: nature is now a strategic national security risk (Defra)[00:31:14] - The future of energy as a service
[00:32:08] - Emily on ROI: we're not accounting for wider structural benefits
[00:33:40] - Parting wisdom for those still in post
[00:38:12] - Protecting your energy and mental health
[00:40:06] - The emerging network: fractional work as a new collaborative model
[00:42:10] - Final question: one thing you'd want from government, business, or individuals
[00:46:50] - The AI/data centre nexus exposing supply chain fragility
What You’ll Learn
The shift from strategic, creative roles to operational, task-oriented execution
Infrastructure funds thriving while real estate sustainability roles contract
The rise of fractional CSO
VUCA world (volatile, uncertain, complex, ambiguous) requiring both create and control
Have senior leaders outgrown the role, or has the role outgrown them?
Can’t separate climate adaptation, biodiversity, and net zero—need integrated approach
Water, land, supply chains: nature’s fundamental impact on real estate
Current ROI calculations only account for single-asset benefits, missing wider structural benefits: grid contribution, area regeneration, systemic value
Mental Health and Burnout of CSOs
Advice for CSOs and sustainability teams
The AI race and the natural resources it depends upon
Key Resources
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Filmed at the MUTE showroom
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